tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post5721728092755130989..comments2024-03-18T11:37:33.735+01:00Comments on .: On Food and Shatila; a Refugee CampSietskehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12063618922778363385noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-87120404972681200982011-06-07T12:34:44.418+01:002011-06-07T12:34:44.418+01:00I didn't directly say you are ignorant and nai...I didn't directly say you are ignorant and naive. I said you look it, when you make indirect political references. <br /><br />My point being - why just refer to the Sabra and Shatilla massacre?<br /><br />Why not refer to the War of the Camps which was just as violent and probably claimed more lives.<br /><br />Given you have worked in the camps the last 20 years, when was the last time you saw Suha Arafat walking around and helping these people better their lives?josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-89753822819661047332011-06-07T12:03:50.300+01:002011-06-07T12:03:50.300+01:00to the "Anonymous" who is calling Lebano...to the "Anonymous" who is calling Lebanon a "cesspool of a country" I can tell you that some of us are very proud of our 5,000 years of civilization, and for every Lebanese-Only-When-Convenient like yourself there are hundreds who have and will continue to pay the ultimate price for our land.<br /><br />So you folks go on and do your good deeds and some of us will make sure that part of our history does not repeat itself with our guests and brotherly neighbors. Good day now...Roger 10452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-63837374794234057132011-06-07T11:44:21.463+01:002011-06-07T11:44:21.463+01:00Super post Sietske. I especially like how you drew...Super post Sietske. I especially like how you drew attention to the fact that even though these people are receiving nothing for their efforts to help you..this still do it..willingly, enthusiastically, and with so much pride. And after everything they have been through..that is a beautiful thing..<br /><br />And yes..go on and teach your children the lessons other people refuse to learn.Daniellehttp://www.thisisbeirut.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-47384375350036182712011-06-07T07:06:29.506+01:002011-06-07T07:06:29.506+01:00Funny how Mr. Rogers thinks this story is one-side...Funny how Mr. Rogers thinks this story is one-sided, like he was expecting the author to discuss the pros of living in squalor instead of just the cons (hmm... it's more cosy that way?).<br /><br />This is as apolitical as one can be on the issue of Palestinian refugees and no one can in their right mind condone that hundreds of thousands of people (most of whom are under 30 and therefore could not possibly have taken part in the Lebanese civil war) have to live in such inhumane conditions just to satisfy his narrow sectarian chauvinistic ego. <br /><br />The sad part is that every Lebanese tribe has their own weird complexes that they are unable to have a normal rational conversation about. Reading these comments here make me feel glad that I left this cesspool of a country when I had the chance...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-78027978299822884742011-06-06T20:54:51.547+01:002011-06-06T20:54:51.547+01:00Sietske, you have just opened the Lebanese Pandora...Sietske, you have just opened the Lebanese Pandora’s box. I do feel and relate to Roger for having witnessed firsthand some of what (if not more) he refers to in his comments. I also was raised in the notion that as a human being I should not only relate to, but also feel for the plight and the poor conditions the camps were under; and so I went a couple of times in my early teens in order to give away presents and food stuff; and later on I went to collect dead bodies (Sabra and Chatila). But in the few years in between I also collected dead bodies of Lebanese who fell under Palestinian shells and bullets. I bear witness to Palestinian kids not over 11 years of age being trained for the sole purpose of killing Lebanese. I also recall, despite money spent by various UN organizations Palestinians teaching their kids how to fight instead of how to read and write. The notion of “fedaiyin” was invented by them and applied not only on Lebanese soil but in Arab and European countries as well, heck even at sea remember Achille Lauro? <br />My views with regards to Palestinians “refugees”, although they might be labelled radical often, do not shy away from the fact that I do believe in the right of all to live in dignity. Having said that such rights have to be earned and not taken for nothing but “simple dues”. When I see until this day all Palestinian “refugee” camps as a safe haven for all those who conspire against the “so called” state of Lebanon, I cannot but feel that all 400,000 of them have revoked any right they might have had with our “failed” state. The Cairo treaty was revoked by Amine Gemayel when he was president, and in this new era of “Arab uprising”, I just wish that the Palestinian would rise against BOTH leaderships and prove that they are worthy of a nation, let alone as citizens in any host country. <br />Yes no one should live in squalor, but sorry to say you can’t help those who do not want to help themselves. Yasser Arafat, Ahmad Jebril, Fatah, Al Saika...etc throughout their history did nothing more than delegitimize the Palestinian cause and put an entire nation on the top of the terrorism list in the west, and the most feared and unwanted in the Arab world. <br />Before Lebanon caters for the need of the Palestinians, it is only proper for this dysfunctional state of ours to cater for its own people who in their hundreds of thousands are now living below the poverty line.<br />Just like you Sietske, my heart aches when I see a child with no hope for the future; but I put the blame (when it comes to the Palestinian problem) onto the elderly ,4 generations back who filled their hearts with so much hatred diminishing their chance to fit into ANY society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-88838551410027222902011-06-06T19:02:51.062+01:002011-06-06T19:02:51.062+01:00I think it should be possible – if one looks from ...I think it should be possible – if one looks from all sides - to feel both empathy towards these people, as well as anger. Hence the ‘ambiguous’ sentiments I mentioned. You have a right to feel upset and angry, but you also have the duty to feel compassion. That’s how the world turns, it’s just not going to work any other way. This place is not a one-way street, it’s all about compromises. and so you get screwed n the deal. Doesn't matter, we all get screwed.Sietskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12063618922778363385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-54707556858297270912011-06-06T17:48:10.876+01:002011-06-06T17:48:10.876+01:00I understand why you are getting upset over this b...I understand why you are getting upset over this because chances are these "refugees" did not inflict any harm on you or your family. However for one minute you should "see things" the way we see them and it could not be any simpler. Those people that you are asking the Lebanese to show some sympathy toward or even "to put ourselves in their shoes" are the same ones who tried to put us in our graves and take over our land. <br /><br />Now tell me how would you feel if someone tried to do the same to you or your homeland???Roger 10452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-70986133495721371472011-06-06T16:54:26.961+01:002011-06-06T16:54:26.961+01:00Ignorant and naive? I hardly think so, young men. ...Ignorant and naive? I hardly think so, young men. I've been roaming these camps for some 20 years now, longer than most of you have been living on these earth. <br />I had this very long reply, in which I was going to argue with all of you, trying to explain certain things. But then I thought, uhuh, why bother? They are not going to get it anyway. You see things the way you see them, and you're incapable of putting yourself in someone else's shoe. <br />Instead, I'll teach my children. . .Sietskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12063618922778363385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-36067395910210521612011-06-06T15:13:39.066+01:002011-06-06T15:13:39.066+01:00Sietske - better you don't make indirect refer...Sietske - better you don't make indirect references to politics. You come out looking ignorant and naive.<br /><br />And I can understand your husband and his friends never stepping foot inside the camps. Even the Lebanese army and ISF are not allowed in there.josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-30483825412901204812011-06-06T14:57:58.699+01:002011-06-06T14:57:58.699+01:00Siets, do we want recipes from such ungrateful Pal...Siets, do we want recipes from such ungrateful Palestinians in your cook book? I think no!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-14669288301841508592011-06-06T12:55:55.650+01:002011-06-06T12:55:55.650+01:00Patrick, of course I mind!!!
The fact is very sim...Patrick, of course I mind!!!<br /><br />The fact is very simple: Palestinians = PLO and this equation has proven to be correct and accurate times and times again. And this applies to men, women, children and even their elderly.<br /><br />While my house was being attacked by the PLO I never ever heard one single Palestinian anywhere in the world condemning their actions against innocent Lebanese civilians, and you know why? they are all cut out of the same cloth and they are very ungrateful people.<br /><br />Should I remind you of all the criminals, assassins and terrorists that these camps are harboring.<br /><br />Should I remind you of what they tried to do in Jordan in the 70's, Kuwait in the 90's and so on and so forth. <br /><br />The truth is, not a single Arab country wants them or even wants to deal with them so they stick them on us. And enough of that already...<br /><br />So absolutely no naturalization to any one of them regardless of what they are called.<br /><br />I understand that the purpose of this article was to shed some light on how they live in the camps, and for that alone I would not have written anything on this blog. But when references are made to what happened in Sabra and Shatila, and indirectly accusing the Lebanese people of killing Palestinians this is when I decided that all the facts need to be revealed and not only one side of the story.<br /><br />So hopefully these cookbooks will make enough money so they can buy land back and leave Lebanon sooner rather than later.<br /><br />Regarding HA arms, this issue is being addressed and soon will be resolved once and for all. So I am not worried about it.Roger 10452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-6330777779727252172011-06-05T20:39:22.264+01:002011-06-05T20:39:22.264+01:00Ok calm down peeps
This article was only about the...Ok calm down peeps<br />This article was only about their difficult condition in these camps.<br />And just so you know Sietske , the conservative government of Canada stopped any aid to the UNRWA , in an attempt to pressure the Lebanese government to naturalize these people. And I hear every day how much the right winged Dutch foreign minister is on friendly terms with the israelis.<br />Palestinians are not the only ones suffering in here , Iraqis are suffering too , if not more.<br /><br />But then Roger I agree 100% with what you said about their arms. I do not believe that Hezbollah's arms are more dangerous than these. Whatever Hezbollah might have in mind , we have more to fear from armed foreigners on our own land.<br />But then again the international community only talks of Hezbollah.<br />I wonder why...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-82178053053616910482011-06-05T18:00:02.767+01:002011-06-05T18:00:02.767+01:00Roger, so let's naturalize only the Palestinia...Roger, so let's naturalize only the Palestinians that are not PLO, I guess you don't mind that do you?Patricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-3186251727682657102011-06-05T12:49:58.286+01:002011-06-05T12:49:58.286+01:00I think your story is very one sided. Although I d...I think your story is very one sided. Although I do not condone human suffering of any kind, let me give you few facts just to balance your story.<br /><br />Lebanon took in the Palestinian refugees in 1948 (after most of them sold their homes at super inflated prices to the Jews), and until 1969 (Cairo accord), we the Lebanese provided them shelter, jobs, and a safe place to raise their families until they were supposed to go back to their land. Only for them to turn against us and decided to create "Fatah land" in Lebanon and claimed that the road to Jerusalem goes through Jounieh (how wrong they were!!!).<br /><br />The suffering that the Lebanese people endured from the PLO between 1969 to 1982 was extremely brutal and came at a very high price. The number of Lebanese children, women and elderly murdered by them is by far higher than any casualties they took during any operations in Sabra, Shatila, Tel El-Zaatar, or any other locations. However, I guess you prefer the way things were handled in Nahr Al Bared, so we will comply with your wishes during the next phase.<br /><br />How about all the illegal arms that still exist in the camps today, what purpose does it serve? How about the brutal acts of aggression by the Israelis that the Lebanese had to endure because of the PLO actions? How about the rights of the Lebanese property owners where these camps exist today? My family owns a large piece of land in the Bekaa along the Syrian border where we have not been allowed to set foot on this land because the Palestinian operate a terrorist training camp on that land. Do we have rights or not?<br /><br />I could go on for hours and write books on this topic, but I suggest that these people give up all arms immediately, show some gratitude to their Lebanese host, get rid of their criminal terrorist leaders, and then we will be more than happy to pay their way to any neighboring Arab country where they can live until such day they return to their land. We have had enough suffering because of them, and now it is time for their other Arab “brothers” to carry this burden. <br /><br />Lebanon has had ENOUGH, and to all those who are talking about naturalizing the PLO in Lebanon I tell them dream on baby…the day this happens is the day the streets in Jounieh will be paved with their bodies…Roger 10452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11791864.post-16674083376457797252011-06-05T10:06:01.684+01:002011-06-05T10:06:01.684+01:00As a Christian born Lebanese let me state my (appa...As a Christian born Lebanese let me state my (apparently controversial) opinion.<br /><br />This is not how human being should be treated. We should do whatever we can to change this, as soon as yesterday.<br /><br />If that means giving them all Lebanese citizenship / residency so be it. Sectarian imbalance and risk of civil war my ass. People should not be treated that way no matter what.Patricknoreply@blogger.com